Please review, the dough is not always the same, there are many different kinds, soft pretzels are also often glazed with lye and salted, germans don’t call hard pretzels laugenbrezel, The images in the lead are a clear violation of. happy new year. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. - Then why did I have to remove it again, from a section that I know I repaired before? I made the following changes: When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know. From this we learn pretzels were common in the Netherlands already in the 17th century. That was my only experience, but I loved it. This pretzel is eaten on New Years Day (morning) in Germany and originates from the southern area of Swabia. A pretzel (Brezel in German) is a type of baked bread product made from dough most commonly shaped into a twisted knot. listing the establishment of pretzel factories is not pretzel history. this is not the case in english. 1 1/4-ounce package active dry yeast (2 1/4 teaspoons) 1 tablespoon packed light brown sugar. factories are only interesting for certain accomplishments in which case i kept them in the article. it’s possible that one or the other escaped my attention but your statement “time and time again” is unwarranted. Apart from that, I had always been under the impression that the phrase "tying the knot" as relates to marriage came from the old tradition of handfasting. The fact is, there are many more sections that need to be added to this article; for example, "Types of pretzels". 1) I see no new information in the picture "Pretzels in Alsace". The crossguard is made of a round cracker biscuit, … Using a slotted spatula, lift the pretzel … Lye rolls are a baked specialty in Germany (especially in Bavaria and Swabia), Austria, and Switzerland.They are made by immersing or "What is a pretzel?". Hear! Many of the statements about pretzels do not apply to all these kinds. the only common denominator in english is "baked" and "flour" which is very meagre for a lead. Where on earth does this idea originally come from?? But what do we learn from the photo where the same Alsacian pretzels hang on the wall? Dave 09:15, 22 November 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davesilvan (talk • contribs), Sorry for my english, I am from Bavaria. If the frequency of pretzels occuring in paintings is so interesting, then describe it in the text or start a new article "Pretzels in art" and explain what is the difference between these paintings. http://www.auntieannes.com/aboutus/newsroom/newsroom/13-01-24/Soft_Pretzel_Icon_Auntie_Anne_s_Turns_25_after_Banner_Company_Year.aspx Sundar, I believe that you seem to be under the mistaken impression that. http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bios/Anne_Beiler_030408.aspx gnu57 14:04, 29 August 2019 (UTC), I don't mean to disparage Mr Weaver's knowledge at all, but one reference to an "independent food historian and author of numerous books", none of which are academic but rather popular, does not really support the statement "modern scholars identify the pretzel." I've already explained what was previously wrong with the lead, and as you so eloquently sidestepped before, "I'm not going to explain myself again". http://www.auntieannes.com/AboutUs/CompanyHistory/25-birthday.aspx i’m sorry, but such a paragraph on american pretzel history and a list of for “american pretzel history” in a general article on the pretzel is a joke. We also see how they were presented on the table. The blade itself measures to be more than 3 meters long. Thus, I will delete the sentence if no reference showing that a "Die Brezel Krieg" holiday does exist will be provided within two weeks. Reify-tech (talk) 14:47, 27 August 2014 (UTC), With all respect I don't agree and before once more you removed several images that were in article for ages will you discuss WHY you want to remove them. Pretzels taste great plain but even more … He has said that "I think a few of the photos in the gallery add little encyclopedic value and need more context." as i explained the last time, i took pain not to delete your spelling and grammar editions. A Dictionary of Gastronomy does not sound like a source to support such statements. If it can be a possible solution that one can put them at the end of the article in a gallery, like *Pretzels in Art*, but it is kinda hiding them to the end of the article, where nobody can see then or find them. The sentence "the German holiday Die Brezel Krieg where Germans have a baking contest to see who has the best pretzels." This statement is just patently false. People couldn’t believe that this delicious bread … The Spanish, French and Italians … OUR HISTORY: PHILLY BORN AND BREAD. Thank you.WikiWikiJG (talk) 20:09, 8 August 2013 (UTC), Hafspajen (talk) 22:14, 25 October 2013 (UTC). They’re a hand-held, baked bread that’s usually shaped in a twisted knot and loved for its salty flavor and unique crunch. I made the following changes: Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:25, 9 December 2017 (UTC). The lead is only supposed to give a general idea. unless you come forth with factual problems or strict rules that i’m unaware of and unless you explain the factual correctness of your lead, it cannot remain as it is. whatever is in the lead must apply to all pretzes and to all countries. it does not unambiguously define the topic for the reader and some statements are simply false. Just so you know, there are no absolute rules on Wikipedia, but that doesn't mean that you can just ignore them. I changed my own contribution to make this clear and listed three types of pretzels. pretzel Das alte Zunftzeichen der Bäcker ist die Brezel. then there is the lye pretzel which connects the two. I don't think that the gallery is entirely inappropriate or excessive, but I would try to integrate the best of those images into the article itself along with some context that makes them more valuable for the reader. In the absence of anything else at most the article should say something like "one modern writer claims that ...." --2607:FEA8:D5DF:F945:2459:C1EC:C71B:4617 (talk) 11:18, 21 September 2019 (UTC), Hear! The info in the lead was too specific. Spudlace (talk) 22:55, 27 September 2020 (UTC), | b1 = , | b2 = , | b3 = , | b4 = , | b5 = , | b6 = . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_F._Beiler. That's the requirement, regardless of what you see its purpose to be. I think the lead is a little confusing and difficult to understand. … 4) I have been living in Germany for almost 40 years and never heard of such competition. Our town is known as Pretzel City—even our local sports teams are known as The Pretzels. the info you removed explains the relationship between the pretzel types and is necessary to understand the article. The gallery in this article is absolutely superfluous.. You also continue to use the word "fest" in an unacceptable way.. Sprinkle the flour evenly over the mixture, rather than dumping it all in … I re-worded it to be more clear. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. if there is a section for germany and one for the u.s. there can very well be ones for other countries. 2) The word "Krieg" (war) is almost never used for a competition, as it has too negative connotations. This is also more informative, as it shows the tradition of selling pretzels on Christmas markets. only the soft lye pretzel is considered a variety of bread and used for a side dish or a snack. While they’re … but killervogel sees it as an invitation to vandalism. (by extension) Anything that is knotted, twisted, or tangled. I am removing the sentence from the article. As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. Today, Auntie Anne’s Pretzels is the world’s largest soft pretzel franchise with more than 1,400 pretzel stores operating around the world. Now I had an excuse to indulge in the salty doughiness of soft pretzels, but have it disguised as the bread … German names for pretzels belong there, not here. The discussion is in the context of animal, not human, sacrifice. --92.225.37.166 (talk) 20:12, 19 May 2011 (UTC), The history section contains the passage: wikify or focus will not do. where would we end, if i added a corresponding paragraph for the pretzel history of other countries? Another possible source for this is Hilda Ellis Davidson, an actual academic who drew a link between bread offerings to Nehalennia (not Sirona), Dutch duivekater bread, and sacrificial substitution. Pretzel salt is a coarse large-grained white salt of uniform size with no additives. You have also combined many small unrelated paragraphs into large, less readable paragraphs…which would these be? Third, if you are interfering with others edits and you see they don't agree, time to discuss. 6000 Central Highway Pennsauken, NJ 08109 Site Map. neither did gigs say it was unnecessary nor does one single comment justify any such action. [citation needed], This sentence doesn't even make sense. Our signature taste marries the bold and savory notes of traditional pretzels with a hint of sweetness. Pretzels are a popular snack food all over the world. I have also. hard pretzels have no immediate relationship with the medievel ones which were only soft and not glazed. Can you add some additional facts about Auntie Anne's starting in PA? i more consider this section as an invitation to other readers to add info on the pretzel in their country. you did drop a lot of info which i put back. You haven't explained how it's encyclopedic. What changes did I, The gallery is still unnecessary. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Hard pretzels have evolved into a variety of shapes from knotted loops to straight "pretzel sticks". Pretzels also were hung on trees to cause them to bear well. These buttery, soft pretzels are great for snacks and super popular for game day food. It should be checked against other reliable sources but it would be a good idea to leave the dubious tags in place for now. Coarse salt and pretzel salt can be found at specialty-food stores or online at americanspice.com. - This invites vandalism and random collections of indiscriminate information; see, "at least they are factually correct, logical and clear" - Several of the edits that you continue to make are neither of these things. The pretzel dough is made from wheat flour, water, sugar, and yeast, sprinkled with coarse salt. i re-introduced the three pictures in the lead because they cover the three basic types of pretzels. yet, if you are so upset about the list, you can easily drop the numbers, only need to add an “or” and, voilà, there’s your prose. Please keep in mind that German and English syntaxes are different ...no kidding. Bring baking soda and 9 cups of water to a boil in a large pot. Besides the grammar mistakes, it's rendered irrelevant by the interwiki links to other languages. aslo, galleries are quite common in articles and there is nothing wrong in keeping this one. The grains are rectangular shaped and flat.This ensures that they adhere to pretzels and other baked goods like bagels, focaccia, bread … To describe it in the text or start a new article "Pretzels in art" - you need references and what I am telling you is just that there are no pretzels in art ON COMMONS: And, I have the definite feeling that I had this discussion before, somewhere, somehow exactly in this way. The ancient guild-symbol of the baker is a pretzel pretzel (third-person singular simple present pretzels, present participle pretzelling or (US) pretzeling, simple past and past participle pretzelled or (US) pretzeled), Definition from Wiktionary, the free dictionary, toasted bread or cracker in the shape of a knot, anything that is knotted, twisted, or tangled, https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=pretzel&oldid=61006839, English terms derived from Old High German, English terms derived from Medieval Latin, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Remove from water to a parchment lined baking sheet. This is so basic that it seems to be assumed and never explained. bread Machine Pretzels Prep: 20 minutes, Cook: 15 minutes. This easy Homemade Pretzel Bread recipe is a simple bread dough consisting of warm milk, yeast, brown sugar, butter, salt and flour. a) "Krieg" (war) is male in the German language. the lead was absolutely correct and complete. as to the pretzel in other countries, getting "fleshed out" ist the very reason i put that section in (and explained it in the discussion page). It may be useful to define the universal attributes of all types of pretzel first (baked, flour, yeast dough, etc), before starting to explain variations. as to the pictures, it is correct that some more are necessary in the lead to cover the major differences: pastry varieties, lye pretzel and party pretzels. there are many wikipedia articles with numbered or bulleted lists and the reason for an article to be “featured” certainly is not because it doesn’t have such a list in the lead. indeed, pretzels are either soft or hard. Auntie Anne's bakers have hand-rolled approximately 1.7 billion pretzels over the past 25 years. That doesn’t mean it never existed, but it cannot have been important, certainly not wide spread and restricted to certain occasions. Pretzels are used in southern German-speaking areas in certain customs and Christian holidays. so i had in mind to add one picture with all three types in the near future. Tagging is not a substitute for getting consensus. this statement is also wrong because it only applies to lye pretzels and pretzel sticks; even for these there are different ingredients, e. g. malt and no sugar. Unless you can provide an encyclopedic rationale for why it. Everywhere inclusive all bakeries it is written as "Breze" or "Brezn". at first glance they have nothing in common. Please take a moment to review my edit. This an interesting illustration. The pretzel is popular in southern Germany and adjoining German-speaking areas as a variety of bread, a side dish or a snack. To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: restoring lead of article that was unnecessarily deleted: Lye pretzels are popular in southern Germany, Alsace, Austria, and German-speaking Switzerland as a variety of bread, a side dish or a snack, and come in many local varieties. The history section mainly applies only to the pastry with the typical pretzel loop, so it’s necessary to make a distinction. it was vehemently opposed by killerbird. Thanks for providing a more reliable source for the "Palm Pretzel". you have pointed this out numerous times but i’m afraid you will have to live with these shortcomings. That is why I changed it to "the three-looped knot shape", which is what I assume you meant by a "pretzel loop", a phrase with literally no meaning to me. Are pretzels generally made with yeast, baking soda, or are they unleavened? i agree with gigs’ comments except for one major problem: there is no universal attribute for a pretzel in english. but where is the connection to the medieval pretzels? one cannot write about germany and the u.s. and completely ignore other countries. i would very much like to read gigs' opinion on the version with the list in the lead. Bread Machine Pretzels are soft and chewy just like vendor style pretzels. i find it very hard to respond to this kind of argumentation that has little to do with content which should primarily be discussed. This homemade pretzel bread recipe is quite simple to make with its few ingredients! I find that attitude unconstructive to building an encyclopedia because it demonstrates an unwillingness to work cooperatively. I think a few of the photos in the gallery add little encyclopedic value and need more context. "but your statement “time and time again” is unwarranted" - It is not; I have had to make identical reversals of punctuation and spelling errors a minimum of three times. I'm not just going to ignore that. that's why i introduced the list in the lead which killervogel absolutely objects to for formal reasons. It's also indiscriminate information, prohibited per. http://www.qsrmagazine.com/news/auntie-annes-twists-its-way-25th-country For 4 Servings: A.. 1-1/2 Tsp. Cheers. perhaps there is a historical relationship. http://www.auntieannes.com/AboutUs/CompanyHistory.aspx whatever is most suitable should be applied and in most cases indeed pure prose is used. if this was the german wikipedia this statement could be considered correct because the germans differ between pretzels and pretzel sticks and have different words. Hemiauchenia I reverted your removal of content cited to Atlas Obscura. It has all the flavor of traditional pretzels but made into a loaf form. Another photo shows the same type of pretzels sold on a Christmas market. since this statement neiter applies to the lye pretzel nor to the various pretzel … b) "Brezel Krieg" is a wrong spelling, because, in the German language, compositions of two words are constucted in a way that both words which are composed are amalgamated into one word: Instead of "Brezel Krieg", "Brezelkrieg" would be the only correct spelling. Are pretzel bread and pretzel buns a fairly new phenomenon? I came up with this recipe for an annual local recipe contest. It's different than the regular pretzels as it isn't coated in lye or baking soda - rather it's a rich, fluffy and slightly sweet Products Our story Contact Recipes Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. To begin on the third opinion, please provide a single sentence that summarizes the dispute as you see it: Thanks. They show different themes and different types. The resulting dough is then shaped into a well-known … if this was the german wikipedia this statement could be considered correct because the germans differ between pretzels and pretzel sticks and have different words. pretzel (plural pretzels) (cooking) A toasted bread or cracker usually in the shape of a loose knot. less-wordy fashion.. have simply corrected your numerous spelling, capitalization, and formatting errors….no information has been changed or lost That is why there is a link to Commons. perhaps it should be considered to to break this up into at least two articles: pretzels (referring to all soft types including the lye pretzel) and pretzel sticks and their varieties and list them in the disambiguation as such. The first two cannot be considered snacks, at least not in the same sense as chips etc. in my last edit i did not use the word “fest”. Any more than that and your pretzels will have a metallic taste. I am not twisting any guidelines; as I see it, you are choosing to ignore them. They made little bun loaves and then split and grilled … Just a thought. the purpose of the lead is absolutely clear and can be fulfilled in different ways. i can add to the list of mistakes in the lead that sourced information in the lead is taken out of context and therefore misleading and wrong. "but you couldn’t resist changing the information in the lead and therefore it still contains mistakes." If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with, If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with, This page was last edited on 9 February 2021, at 17:48. There are respective “Brezel/pretzel” articles in many other languages; there is no reason to write what pretzel sticks are called in German or Hungarian in the introduction. Also, can you consider adding the following under the United States: Existing: Pennsylvania today is the center of American pretzel production for both the hard crispy and the soft bread types of pretzels. Th Hafspajen (talk) 18:38, 19 August 2015 (UTC). Some thought that breaking a pretzel was like breaking a wish-bone; Breaking the pretzel ceremoniously would make a wish come true. 2019-12-23 08 00 49 A pretzel with a nut and dab of chocolate in the Dulles section of Sterling, Loudoun County, Virginia.jpg 4,032 × 3,024; 2.8 MB 2020-03-14 16 23 20 An intact Wawa … I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Pretzel. if others did that for other countries, wikipedia would become too small. as long as this is not done the differentiation is necessary in the lead and that’s best done with a list. I'll wait for an outside editor to offer a third opinion on this as well, since you seem to just want things your way without defending them with any policies or guidelines. indeed, articles in foreign languages are available. The quality of the picture is equally good. since this statement neiter applies to the lye pretzel nor to the various pretzel sticks, it is wrong. Diving straight into variations fails to define the basic commonality in attributes. The first pretzels were baked as a soft, squishy bread, like the soft pretzels of today. hard pretzels evolved only from the lye pretzel. Would be a great pretzel/bread stick recipe to do with kids as it doesn't have any extra steps (like boiling before … The "pretzel loop" means absolutely nothing without a context of what a pretzel loop is. I suggest the material in "Pretzels in other countries" may well be appropriate, but not as it currently exists. You can't walk away on a bombshell like that. The recipe is similar to pretzels, and both are Celtic water goddesses. If found absolutely necessary for the article, it should go under “miscellaneous”. Considered an iconic symbol of Germany, the pretzel is a type of traditional baked good that is made by combining flour, salt, malt, yeast, and water. I don't think Atlas Obscura is a good source to use for anything controversial but it's an ok source for basic facts. after all this discussion it is very surprising to read that killervogel agrees with gigs' comments. - Actually, the "ideal" is fulfilled now; images are evenly spaced and properly illustrate the article. In the Czech Republic, the pretzel is known as preclík, in Finland as viipurinrinkeli, in Slovakia, it is called praclík. if that is the case there could be a section "related pastries", of course with sources explaining this relationship. the only acceptable solution is to tag it with an invitation to improve that section. "i’m afraid you will have to live with these shortcomings" - I absolutely, "i more consider this section as an invitation to other readers to add info on the pretzel in their country." If it is "spectacular" without any new information, it can be viewed on Commons. "in my last edit i did not use the word “fest”." The "Pretzels in European countries" section is, as I said, non-encyclopedic. I would suspect that the writer of the cited article heard this, misunderstood, and put the name of the wrong Celtic goddess. putting more pics into the article so far was an absolute no-no. I see by Hadspajen's recent work that the idea that pretzels date precisely AD 610 is, in fact, very widespread, and not just an invention of Buch and Hellemans'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A601:AA6:3000:A071:F60E:C5A2:F2A (talk) 20:10, 21 September 2019 (UTC). Second, the image with pretzels you keep removing is spectacular and good, a good image made by a sadly missed editor, who really was a genius with images. Please take a moment to review my edit. [4][5][6][7] Pennsylvania produces 80% of the nation's pretzels.[34].

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